- Category: The Gottlieb (CCRKBA) Dilemma
- Published: Wednesday, 24 December 2008 21:20
- Written by Gun Owners
E-Mail Feedback Received At GOA Regarding Washington HB 1424
Note: All names (except those of public figures), addresses, and e-mail addresses have been redacted. At the time of posting, ALL e-mail which was either negative towards GOA or which supported the Gottlieb action were included.
Some materials below are exchanges of e-mail which were forwarded to GOA. In most such cases, the order of mail is from last to first.
Another response from my Washington State Legislature concerning the recent attempts to pass the storage bill. Appears to be another supporter in our corner.
Subject: RE: Lock Up Bills
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:52:20 -0800
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Thanks for your note. Rep. Kessler doesn't vote for any gun control bills. And she's a crack shot!
Glory DeGarmo, Executive Assistant to Rep. Lynn Kessler
Dear CCRKBA and SAF
Thank you for your response. I am still not going to change my stance or belief that you are supporting the gun control measures in both bills. I refer to the February 10, 1999 edition of Gun Week, page two with the article titled "Washington State Solons Eye Mixed Bag of Gun Legislation." Mr. Gottlieb is quoted as saying "We support the coalition bill." Three paragraphs later it tells about the coalition bill. It states 1. "Allows prosecutors to charge gunowners with reckless endangerment, a misdemeanor, if a child finds and uses a loaded gun that has not been locked up;" 2. "Not hold gunowners legally responsible if their guns are secured in a lock box etc..........." 3. "Require gun dealers to post a sign etc........" 4. "Allow owners to decide how and where they should store their guns".
How can you support a bill that contradicts itself? You are saying that I can decide how to store my firearms, yet if I don't lock them up I can be prosecuted. That sounds like a requirement to lock my guns away. Myself, my wife and our two children are NRA life members. They are around firearms and know how to use them. I like anyone else despise the loss of life and serious injury that firearms cause, but don't punish me or other gun owners that do not abuse our rights. Your two organizations need to join with Gunowners of America and the NRA and speak on a united front. GOA is the only organization that doesn't try to give up anything and is always opposing gun control no matter how trivial. Think back about 5 years ago when the Brady Bill surfaced. The NRA was quick to support the instant check. I don't know what your stance at the time was, but look where we are now. All firearms purchases must now go through a back ground check, not just handguns. I will be looking forward to hearing back from you soon on this. Until you come on line with 100% pro-gun support do not expect any financial support. People are always asking what gun organizations they can join. Usually I say the NRA and GOA. But the way everyone tries to bargain away things, I can only recommend GOA. If I am mistaken on something from above or if there was a misprint in the article, please advise me on this. Again, I would love to hear back from you with the real scoop.
How convenient. Technically, your response is true, but it sounds more like "Clinton-speak" to me. As I understand the bill that you are co-sponsoring, you get your 'choice' of using a trigger lock, gun safe, or lockbox:
HB 1424 - DIGEST
Declares that a person is guilty of reckless endangerment if the person stores or leaves a loaded firearm in a location where the person knows, or reasonably should know, that a child is likely to gain access, and a child obtains possession of the loaded firearm.
Does not apply if: (1) The firearm is secured in a locked box, gun safe, other secure locked storage space, or secured with a lock or any device that prevents the firearm from discharging;
(2) the child's access to the firearm is supervised by an adult;
(3) the child's access to the firearm was obtained as a result of an unlawful entry; or
(4) the child's access to the firearm was in accordance with RCW 9.41.042.
Provides that, when selling any firearm, every dealer shall offer to sell or give the purchaser a locked box, gun safe, a lock, or any device that prevents the firearm from discharging.
So, yes, I guess you could technically say that it doesn't require a trigger lock, but that's an awfully disingenuous way of getting around the fact that the law would REQUIRE at least ONE of the approved methods of storage or face being a law-breaker.
Any way that you look at it, you are talking about the government stepping in and, albeit in just a minor way to start, infringing on my constitutional right to bear arms, a right that our forefathers provided for WITHOUT ANY RESTRICTIONS OR AMENDMENTS!!. No matter if the intentions are good, any step to erode these rights is shortsighted and is simply the beginning of the trip down the slippery slope of restricting or eliminating a right we have as citizens of this free country.
I personally feel that along with this freedom and these rights that we enjoy comes certain responsibilities that each one of us, individually, must pledge to uphold. But these are responsibilities that must be considered individually by each of us as free people, NOT legislated by the Government from above. What we need is more personal responsibility and accountability and NOT more governmental intrusion. Somehow, our Republican leaders seem to forget that this is a fundamental belief of our Party.
P.S.-I find it odd that our elected officials can hide behind the belief that you can't legislate personal morality (ie-restrict abortions in any way) and yet they can turn around and believe in legislating person responsiblities as if people are incapable of making the right decisions regarding their firearms. We are capable of deciding whether or not to kill an unborn child, but we are somehow incapable of deciding how to handle/store our firearms. How convenient! And how sad!
At 12:00 PM 3/11/99 -0800, you wrote:
>Actually where I stand on the issue is that I'm the prime sponsor of the
>bill. There is nothing in the bill that requires a trigger lock. I suggest
>you read the bill...all we are talking about is safe storage of firearms.
>I'm a gun owner myself, I have a CWP and I opposed 676.However,guns should
>be safely stored were children can't get to them. That's only common
>sense....Gottlieb may not speak for you, but he speaks for many people who
>live in the District as well as the state. Thanks for writing, Ida
As a result of my discussions with CCRKBA (Gottlieb) on trigger locks and his lobbying in Olympia, Wa. I received the forwarded e-mail.Based on their reply'I fail to see GOA"S position on this issue (GOA E-Mail Alert dated March 11 and 12) Please advise.
Sent: Friday, March 12, 1999 12:03 PM
Subject: Re: HB 1424
Thank you for e-mailing us on the important matter of HB 1424.
1. HB 1424 EXPLICITLY DOES NOT MANDATE ANYTHING. It states so clearly in the bill. HB 1424 reads in both sections:
Section 1. "(6) Nothing in this section mandates how or where a firearm must be stored."
Section 2. "(4) Nothing in this section mandates how or where a firearm must be stored."
2. There are NO FELONY penalties prohibiting future gun ownership after a conviction. Conviction for reckless endangerment is a gross misdemeanor and does not come under the "domestic violence" prohibitions. HB 1424 reads:
Section 1. "(7) +} Reckless endangerment is a gross misdemeanor."
3. HB 1424 died without coming out of Committee on March 2, 1999. On Thursday, March 11, the Washington State House did pass a reciprocity carry bill. We are hopeful for success in the Senate. Gov. Locke is the key.
Following at the end are the links to:
1. HB 1424 regarding "safe storage" of firearms. This law mandates nothing and the penalty for any violation DOES NOT cost the individual his or her gun rights!
2. RCW (Revised Code of Washington) 9.41.042 regarding lawful conduct with kids and guns. These exemptions are included in HB 1424's language.
3. Washington State Legislature general website to allow you access to the most timely information on this issue.
The fact is that gun control advocates plan to introduce heinous gun confiscation measures in the next session of the Legislature.
The gun grabbers plan to combine a MANDATORY storage law with a "gun show loophole" language and probably more restricting licensing and registration schemes.
HB 1424 was crafted to take the steam away from gun banners without hurting gun owners. Gun owners can already be prosecuted for reckless endangerment. This bill would have severely limited those prosecutions by imposing standards of conduct.
Please write back or call 425-454-4911 if there are any more questions or concerns. We understand that RCW Code can be confusing but HB 1424 is a straight-forward, two page bill.
Thanks again for e-mailing us on this crucial issue.
CCRKBA Legislative Staff
> 1. Link to HB 1424 text:
> 2. Link to RCW 9.41.042, the state law about lawful conduct with kids and
> guns. Every responsible exemption seems to be there.
> 3. Washington State Legislature general website to confirm these links as
> http://www.leg.wa.gov/wsladm/default.htm General Washington Legislative
> http://www.leg.wa.gov/wsladm/bills.htm Look under House Bills. HB
> http://www.leg.wa.gov/wsladm/ses.htm Look under Chapter 9 of the RCW.
> Then 9.41, then 9.41.042
Thanks for all your work on behalf of the 2nd Amendment.
You may not remeber me but we've met a couple of times in the past. I work in the Washington State House of Representatives as a Research Analyst for the XXXXXXX (I've been on staff since 1984).
I'm not sure where you got your information on the status of HB 1424 but it is now dead! Representative Mike Carrel, the Republican Co-Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, would not agree to schedule HB 1424 for a hearing prior to the March 2nd deadline for getting bills out of the policy committees.
I should explain that our House of Representatives has a 49-49 tie between the Republicans and Democrats. Each committee has a Republican and Democrat co-chairman and an equal number of Democrats and Republicans on each committee. For a bill to be scheduled for a hearing both the Democrat and Republican co-chairman must agree.
Representative Carrel deserves a good pat on the back for getting HB 1424 sent to his committee after it was approved by the House Criminal Justice and Corrections Committee and then not scheduling it for a hearing. Usually a bill is not sent to another poicy committee after it is passed by the first policy committee. Rep. Carrel took some flack for killing the bill but he stood up the liberal pressure groups and held firm.
I just checked with one of my colleagues who provides staff support to Rep. Carrel and he said it was not likely that the libs would try to pull the bill directly to the floor. That staff person is a good friend of mine and is a solid conservative. He has been on staff since the mid-1980s and knows the legislative process well so I would trust his judgement on this matter.
In summary, I don't think it is necessary to call out the troops at this time. Although a bill is never totally dead until the legislature adjourns, I think we are safe for now.
If you have questions feel free to call me at (360) 786-XXXX.
By the way, you are "right-on" about Alan Gottlieb. He has disappointed and/or disgusted a number of people.
Larry Pratt: Whitney Graves is not a gun control bill. It does not mandate trigger locks, gun safes, or any other specific form of security.
All Whitney Graves does is tie responsibility to rights, in this case, the responsibility of all of us to use good judgment in how we store our weapons.
Unlike the trigger-lock bill we soundly defeated, this bill simply says we have a responsibility to take reasonable precautions to keep kids from getting our guns. If you have no kids at home and no kids visiting, and if you lock your house when you leave it, you can keep your guns just about anywhere and in any condition. The only way a kid can get your guns is to break the law by breaking and entering your house. You are off the hook. On the other hand, if you have children at home, and your kids often have kids from other homes over to play, you have a responsibility to keep the guns where the kids can't get at them.
Whitney Graves dictates NOTHING that common sense doesn't also dictate.
I support Whitney Graves. It is not gun control. It is irresponsibility control.
I sent my money this month to Alan Gottlieb, not to the NRA. And I told him why.
I've looked at the documents on the GOA website and I'd like to add one item to the discussion.
Why should a minor be prevented from defending himself?
As you know, I started training my children at the earliest possible age. J. and S. have become accomplished marksmen well able to shoot in competition. At age nine, T. is preparing to shoot in her first NRA sanctioned rifle match. I consider them all capable of handling firearms safely.
In the last year, two rapes have occurred within two hundred yards of my home. I am extremely glad that *all* the members of my family have had firearms training and know where loaded firearms are available. It could well be the difference between successful self-defense and tragedy.
>> > Gun Owners of America E-Mail/FAX Alert
>> > 8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151
>> > Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408
>> > http://www.gunowners.org
>> > March 11, 1999 (Pt 1 of 2)
>> > Dear Washington Gun Owner:
>> > The most dangerous attack is the one that comes from behind your own
>> > lines, from so-called leaders who sell out to anti-gunners.
>> As a matter of fact, this is NOT true. HB 1424 and its Senate
>> counterpart, SB 5294, DO NOT impose felony penalties, DO NOT revoke
>> anyones' gun rights, and DO NOT mandate where or how you store a firearm.
>> Existing law in Washington is wide open for prosecuting an irresponsible
>> gun owner for allowing any disqualified person (including minors) to
>> access your firearm. This is RCW 9A.36.050, Reckless Endangerment.
>> HB 1424/5294 LIMIT PROSECUTION for anyone, whose circumstances warrant
>> it, who takes any reasonable precautions to keep guns and young kids
>> apart. It SPECIFICALLY and EXPLICITLY states "NOTHING IN THIS SECTION
>> SHALL MANDATE HOW OR WHERE A FIREARM MUST BE STORED."
>> The penalty is a gross misdemeanor, NOT A FIREARM DISQUALIFIER.
>> If Bill Clinton were to mischaracterize legislation this way you know
>> what we'd call him. What does this make GOA?
>> It's interesting to note that the GOA alert is being used primarily as a
>> vehicle to attack a gun-rights rival, Alan Gottlieb. Having gone after
>> the NRA for so long, I guess Mr. Pratt decided it was time to spread the
>> Also interesting is the reference to I-676, the gun control initiative
>> soundly defeated in Washington in November, 1997. Principal opponent of
>> I-676 was WeCARE (Washington Citizens Against Regulatory Excess), an
>> umbrella organization with membership made up of the NRA, CCRKBA,
>> Washington Arms Collectors, Gun Owners Action League of WA and the
>> Washington State Rifle and Pistol Association. Did you see GOA in
>> there? Where was GOA? Except for an internal mailing to members and
>> support for one splinter organization in the northwest corner of the
>> state, GOA was AWOL.
>> I'm surprised this alert was used to segue into a plea for Vermont-Style
>> Carry (VSC), GOA's pet rock. What they forget to tell you is that NO
>> STATE, including Vermont, has passed VSC. (Vermont did it 94 years ago
>> by a Supreme Court decision--a decision that is highly unlikely to be
>> repeated anywhere today.)
>> It's nice to brag about being the Second Amendment purist, and daydream
>> about a USA in which no gun control laws exist. But most of us live in
>> the real world. While we'd all like to see VSC everywhere, we do what we
>> can to make conditions better where we can, state by state.
>> Where is GOA on Missouri's Proposition "B," that state's right-to-carry
>> referendum? They'd rather deny law-abiding Missourians the right to
>> defend themselves than support a "flawed" carry law. Well, I know how
>> I'd vote in Missouri on April 6th!
>> I'd be happy to discuss the GOA alert with anyone who cares to call me at
>> (425) 454-4911.
>> Joe Waldron
>> Executive Director, CCRKBA
>> Chairman, WeCARE
From: Joe Waldron To:
Date: Thursday, March 11, 1999 6:46 PM
Subject: Re: Don't Support HB 1424 - "Lock away your safety bill"
>> Gotlieb's support of Reasonable gun control such as "Lock Up Your
>> Safety gun control like HB 1424" is one reason I no longer can support
>> CCKKBA OR SAF. Rapists will NOT wait for me to unlock my firearms.
>> We, Gun owners in
>> READ THE BILL (soemthing I think GOA did not). IT DOESN'T MANDATE
>> ANYTHING. IT NARROWS EXISTING LAW.
>> Ga., just defeated an anti gun bill exactly like this in Georgia last
>> session. Please don't help the anti gunners pass one in Washington!
>> The NRA even opposes it! Why has Gotlieb suddenly become antigun
>> Get a life. N. If you believe everything you read on the 'net (or
>> from GOA), you need help.
>> If HB 1424 passes, don't bother calling me any more for any
>> solicitations and I will be one less mailing you'd have to do also.
>> It won't pass because it DIED March 2nd! Where has GOA been since the
>> bill was filed back in January? Probably running up and down state
>> legislatures screaming "Vermont-style carry, Vermont-style carry." If
>> you want VSC, you'd be better off lobbying your state Supreme Court
>> (that's how Vermont got it in 1903).
>> Joe Waldron
>> Former supporter of GOA
Gotlieb's support of Reasonable gun control such as "Lock Up Your Safety gun control like HB 1424" is one reason I no longer can support CCKKBA OR SAF. Rapists will NOT wait for me to unlock my firearms. We, Gun owners in Ga., just defeated an anti gun bill exactly like this in Georgia last session. Please don't help the anti gunners pass one in Washington! The NRA even opposes it! Why has Gotlieb suddenly become antigun owner?!?!
If HB 1424 passes, don't bother calling me any more for any solicitations and I will be one less mailing you'd have to do also. Mr. and Mrs. JH
(former supporter of CCRKBA and SAF) When women are disarmed, a rapist will never hear - Stop or I'll shoot!
Below are copies of my email correspondence with CCRKBA. You might find it interesting. I found it so, and frustrating also. I have emailed my reps and Sen. and they are against the Whitney Graves Bill. (DeBolt, Alexander and Swecker).
L. to CCRKBA:
I was amazed to read in the Tacoma News Tribune, 10 Feb 99, a quote by Alan Gottlieb, that "This is a good bill that makes a lot of sense" "It does not infringe on the right to keep and bear arms."
The NRA is against the bill even. Where is Gottlieb coming from? Is he getting "Presidential" in his definition of "keep?"
It would seem to me that pro-gun organizations have consistently held that there are plenty of laws to support legal action against wrongful use and "keeping" of firearms, and yet here is Gottlieb agreeing that we need another??
Perhaps he was misquoted? Perhaps I don't see the big picture, but for the state to mandate how I keep my firearms is one more step on the way to registration and inspection. I "keep" my firearms under sufficient protection to insure that someone would have to break and enter to steal them and yet have them available for protective purposes. Where does this legislation against idiocy end?? Why make the gun owner responsible for a criminal act by another?
People with children should train their children about firearms and be held responsible for their children's behavior. Shall be mandate safe storage for matches and lighters also???
CCRKBA to L.:
All this bill does is redefine the Reckless Endangerment statute. As it is now if a child finds your gun, even if it is unloaded, and uses it you can be held responsible for all actions taken by the child. The new bill simply redefines it, and states that if a child, 16 or under, finds a LOADED firearm that is not stored in a reasonalbe fashion, the owner is responsible. A reasonable fashion means in a locked safe, locked box, locked room or closet, and so on. You are not responsible if your weapon is stolen. You are only responsible if your weapon is LOADED, and put somewhere that we all would agree is irresponsible.
This is not a new gun control bill, it is simply a redefinition of an existing statute. We have taken a lot of flack for supporting this, but the bottom line is that more draconian gun control measures were on the way, going under the guise of safe storage legislation. These included very specific mandated methods of storage. By getting HB 1424 passed we cut off the safe storage route for gun control.
We are not, nor will we ever, sell out gun owners. I hope this answered your concerns.
L. to CCRKBA:
> Thanks for your enlightening answer. One further question: I am single,
> have no children. If a "child" breaks into my house and takes my loaded
> weapon from my bedside table (an unlocked drawer), am I protected from
> My other concern is that you say this bill was to forestall more draconian
> measures. From my experience in dealing with the gun control people they
> will continue to push for more and more legislation. My concern here is
> being "nibbled to death," which has been a standard ploy by these people.
> They propose something so egregious that we come up with a lesser
> counterproposal which passes, but the effect is we are helping them pass
> gun control legislation.
CCRKBA to L.:
If anyone, including a 'child' breaks into your house, you are not responsible regardless. You are only responsible if there are children in the house by your permission (as I understand the law/bill).
There was going to be a 'safe storage bill' of some sort passed this year. Gov. Locke made it a priority, and lets face it, it is really hard to argue with child safety. Something was going to pass, and we are glad it was this. The gun grabbers will always be trying to chip away at our rights, that is true. Lets hope we can stop it with this.
Dear Larry Pratt - Executive Director Gun Owners of America,
Perhaps you'll be able to locate my March 11 query questioning of the 'tidbits' you relayed in the first of the two part email mentioned below. I never received any reply from that email.
A minute before the reply to your email, I did send a piece of email with a like query to Joe Waldron who promptly replied with a pointer to the state web page where many of the facts, as related below by Mr. Gottlieb, are to be found. That public information relating to the status and content of the proposed laws strongly disagreed with your published information.
Based on the reply I received from Mr. Waldron, and the information I found on the web, I would like to assume that you were very misinformed and unable to read for yourself that day. I trust you will publish an appropriate explanation and response to the issues and concerns of Mr. Gottlieb as expressed below.
Independent of your response to Mr. Gottlieb for the indicated transgressions, which appear to be valid and well written, I would like to address the simple lack of timeliness in that March 11 email. By the time that email was sent those two bills had already died, perhaps they could have been revived. In sending that email you generated a lot of emotion and asked a (large) number of people to act on it quickly. Such quick actions without fact checking would have led to many people calling state Reps sounding like half cocked alarmist reactionaries - who were not only a dollar short - but indeed a week late.
I appreciate your generally informative email updates, and in fact asked others to sign up for them. I don't believe they are a place for political infighting or personal agendas however when they detract from the common cause.
Thanks for your time,
Mr. Gottlieb has never made a secret of his support for some gun control measures. We refer you to the archives at their (SAF/CCRKBA) website. His attitude is give a little and they will give a little. Uh huh, swell.
WAGC-CA ceased supporting both organization more than two (2) years ago. Why others continue to support them is beyond us.
Karen (Soo Li) West
Women AGAINST Gun Control, California
For more information relating to WAGC, please visit our National Headquarters home-page at: www.wagc.com
But this time the anti-gunners have a new ally in Alan Gottlieb (actually many Washington gun activists know Mr. Gottlieb has pushed Lock Up Your Safety for years, but he never did it publicly).
I complained to 2nd Am. Fnd. about Gottlieb support for HB1424 and talked to Dave there. He denied that they were supporting any such legislation and emailed me the text of the bill. I confess that I cannot see anything in it which supports any such thing. It seems to prohibit any such requirements for storage, locks or other punitive gun control methods, and to require that suits cannot be brought against gun owners whose guns are stolen for subsequent damages caused by the perpetrators.
Correct me if I am wrong. It disturbs me when the gun supporters squabble. I have joined GOA, 2nd Amnd. Fnd, and other minor gun groups. I have been an NRA member for 52 years. I fully support Larry's no-compromise stance, as outlined in his letter to NRA and in other GOA publications. It would be foolish to advocate cooperation amongst the groups, but it would be better if we looked for areas of agreement.
Apparently you're not the only ones who think that HB 1424 is bad for gun owners.
I retrieved the following from the NRA web site.
Please keep up the good work despite opposition.
WASHINGTON: Wed., March 17, is the deadline for anti-gunlawmakers to revive two firearms storage bills -- HB 1424 and SB5294 before the full House and Senate. While these proposals donot mandate storage, they provide redundant criminal penalties which only serve to demonize firearms in state law! Contact your State Representative (360) 786-7573 and State Senator at (360)786-7550 and urge them to oppose SB 5294 and HB 1424.
It would seem as if GOA hasn't learned. That being the case, CANCEL my membership in your organization immediately.
I'm referencing your March 11 & 12 Washington State alerts and your false accusations aimed at the Second Amendment Foundation.
We have enough problems with lies, fraud and deceit being spread around by the antis, we don't need more of it being spread around in the interests of trying to win the "Will The Real Gun Rights Organization, Please Stand Up" contest.
DO NOT send me any more literature. I assure you, my response will cost your organization more than it is worth.
Dear N and C,
Caught your post through WGEN in Washington State. My name is AW, and for over 15 years, I have lobbied for honest gun owners in this state.
The personal attack that Mr. Gottlieb made on Larry Pratt is nothing but smoke and mirrors, I believe, to try and hide what I perceive to be his involvement with and his help in sponsoring and writing these terrible anti-gun bills.
N gave you the correct address to look up the text and history of these bills: http://search.leg.wa.gov/pub/textsearch/.
Some of you may think this is only this year's battle. This battle has been going on, for us in Washington State, since 1997. It starts with HB 1140, filed on 1-15-97, moves on to the mirror bill, SB 5407, filed on 1-24-97. These two bills were filed by Democrats and were easy to kill, because of the Repulican controlled house and senate. But here's where Mr. Gottlieb's involvement starts, we believe. SB 5418 was introduced by Republican Senator Jeanette Wood on 2-13-97. She personally told me she introduced this at Mr. Gottlieb's request, and that he continually helped her to promote this bill. At the same time, Republican Representative Ida Ballsiotes introduced HB 2078, on 2-19-97. Rep. Ballsiotes also personally told me she was talked into running this bill by Mr. Gottlieb. Mr. Gottlieb wrote to many editorial boards in this state, including the Seattle Times, The Seattle Post Intelligencer, and the Yakima and Spokane papers. In these editorials, he stated he supported these trigger lock bills. You can check this out by accessing their websites.
When these bills were appearing to fail, a slight variant, HB 2273 was introduced on 3-18-97, also by Ida Ballsiotes. It was also killed. They tried to bring back HB 2078, SB 5418, and HB 2273 in the 1998 legislative session. These were killed once again. So, on 2-2-98, HB 3102, Ida's newest attempt at legislation, written with the help of some of Gottlieb's employees, was introduced. It was also killed. Now, we come to HB 1424, and it's evil companion, SB 5294, sponsored by Senator Jeralita Costa. These are both bad bills that we have been told were written with the help of a Gottlieb employee. You will notice, if you look at the bills previously mentioned, that they have been sponsored by Reps. Costa and Ballsiotes. What an amazing coincidence.
Mr. Pratt did make one mistake, and I'm sure it was an accident, when he stated that HB 1424 included a felony penalty. He was wrong. It was SB 5017 which contained the felony penalty for failure to safely store your guns.
All the above listed bills are bad for the legitimate firearms owners of any state.
Several firearms groups in Washington State have begun a campaign that's called "NO MORE MONEY FOR THE BOYS FROM BELLEVUE." They believe that Mr. Gottlieb and his two organizations, CCRKBA, and the Second Amendment Foundation, take over 5 million dollars each year from legitimate firearms owner to defend their firearms rights. We wonder how much of this money is being spent on this anti-gun activity of supporting and promoting these anti- gun-owning, trigger-locking, safe storage legislation. These groups suggest that perhaps Mr. Gottlieb has too much money and too much time to give to these poor pieces of legislation. So perhaps you should send your money to other organizations that we believe DO support your right to firearms ownership. Mr. Gottlieb's organization is also sometimes called the Citizen's Committee to Lock Up Your Guns or Else!! So, if you believe this is a good idea, just remember the motto, "No more money for the boys from Bellevue." If it has a Bellevue, Washington address, P O box, or telephone number, don't send them any money. They don't need it.
N was right when she says Larry was right to reprimand Gottlieb for supporting an unconstitutional, anti-gun-owner bill. This bill may start out as a misdemeanor, but probably would become a felony next year, the way these anti-gunners work. And it also may not mandate storage, but how long would it take them to change that? These anti-gunner seem to have 5-year plans where they start out big, work it down to where you'll accept it, and then make it big again until it hurts you. If you look at HB 2078, 2273, and SB 5418, you will see they all talk about trigger locks, which Mr. Gottlieb want to deny is in HB 1424. If you look at these old bills and compare them to 1424, you will see that he removed the word "trigger" from in front of the word "lock" and the word "similar" from in front of the word "device." But what else can the word "lock" mean?
In our testimony against these bills, we gave one example of a 4-year old child who was killed by a bear because his neighbor could not find the key to unlock his hunting rifle to kill the bear that was attacking the boy and his mother. But this and other examples seem to make no difference to the people who are supporting this bill, including prosecutors and law enforcement officers. They just had a segment on one of the morning TV shows that showed how to make your house safer from criminals. This showed an expert installing keyed window locking devices to protect you from the criminal. But at least he had the common sense to tell you not to install these on a window you would use to escape a fire, because you would probably not be able to find the key when you needed it. The show's host agreed with him on that point. So how are you to protect yourself with a locked up firearm if you can't find the key?
I could only hope that Mr. Gottlieb would lock up all his firearms to protect his children and then we could all hope that he would find out how wrong he was when he found out he couldn't have access to his guns to protect his family.
Mr. Gottlieb has told us up here that we need to do this before the bad guys do it to us. What kind of sense does that make? Let's make a crummy law that punishes honest gun owners before the bad guys pass one that punishes us. Boy, that's a great idea.
Somebody asked if Gottlieb was a California Liberal type pro-gunner. Some people tell me he's worse than that. If you really want to know more about Mr. Alan Gottlieb, here is a link to a website. Mr. Gottlieb spent 16 hours with these people giving them an interview. A most interesting read. The Merchant of Fear . This article was due to appear in two installments, but was mysteriously stopped after the first installment was run, by the Bellevue American Journal. I wonder why.
Please continue to support Larry Pratt and Gun Owners of American in their efforts to fight for our firearm rights. They are doing the RIGHT thing. God Bless 'em. In Mr. Gottlieb's "Open Letter," he states that he has allowed representatives of GOA to speak at his Gun Rights Policy Conferences. What he fails to tell you is that at this year's conference, I was told that Larry Pratt would not be allowed to speak, even though he had been allowed in the past, because Morris Dees of the Southern Poverty Law Center had declared Mr. Pratt to be a racist. If Mr. Gottlieb, or his employees, are going to let Mr. Dees pick his friends, or who can speak at the Gun Rights Policy Conference, then Mr. Gottlieb and his organizations are once again dead wrong.
My final line will be: these are bad bills, we need all your help, and GOA's continued help, to stop this kind of bad legislation that we feel can only harm gun owners.
Posted to gun-owners-alliance by: JH
To whom it may concern: Anyone who suggests trigger locks or safes or mandatory but unpecified "Safe" storage for a firearm for any reason other than the OPTIONAL exercising of responsible conduct and security against theft or misuse is either pathetically naive, a meddling and uninformed do-gooder, an agent for Handgun Confiscation,(control) Inc., and the enemy of personal responsibility and the 2nd Amendment of the Bill of Rights. Trigger locks and/or mandatory storage requirements are the moral equivalent of practicing VOODOO by shackling an inanimate object as though IT is responsible for it's misuse by human beings. Mandatory "safe" storage is insane and a trigger lock renders a loaded defensive weapon useless and at the same time makes it more dangerous than ever to its owner, which is NOT the desired or intended effect of firearms ownership.
IF Alan Gottlieb, or anyone else claiming to be pro-2nd Amendment is promoting and has promoted ANY trigger lock device or mandatory "safe" storage or statutory requirement for a sovereign citizen to be required to use or adhere to in ANY circumstance, as opposed to that citizen having the CHOICE of electing to or not to maintain the responsible storage of a firearm as he/she sees fit, and then alone bearing the responsibilty and consequence of that decision, than Alan Gottlieb, and anyone else that so promotes it, in effect, is part of the Gun Control Movement in the United States, and an ally of Handgun Control (Confiscation), Inc., and Sarah Brady, Charles Schumer, et al.
If this is true, Mr. Gottlieb is not a pro-second Amendment representative. It is not that I admire Larry Pratt, as I do not think the politics of fundamentalist religion, practiced by SHI'ITE Republicans has any business in this VERY secular issue, nor has it been effective. However, if Mr. Gottlieb is and has promoted a trigger lock or any statutory "safe" storage requirement as mandatory, removing the citizen's OPTION to use, dispose, store one's property in anyway as one sees fit, he has betrayed the 2nd amendment and it's "shall not be infringed" clause.
He might as well place locks and "safe" storage requirements on swimming pools, tricycles, bicycles, knives, machetes, bludgeons, baseball bats, screwdrivers, ashtrays and refrigerators. If Gottlieb is supporting mandatory statutory "safe" storage or trigger locks, he is just another statist similar to the NRA types that want to protect YOU from YOURSELF because HE/THEY know so much better than YOU do. (Anthony Roulette, ILA spinmeister, comes to mind) Why might that be? Who the hell is Alan Gottlieb? Who appointed him arbiter or Your and MY rights? What expertise QUALIFIES him to endorse/support or recommend any law, regulation in re: firearms carry or storage, such laws or statutes which contravene the U.S. Constitution?
I have some questions for Mr. Gottlieb:
Other than publishing, what are your credentials in the 2nd Amendment BUSINESS? What was your major in college?
In what jurisdiction and how long were you a police officer?
Have you ever shot competitively?
Do you have a CCW? How long have you carried?
Were you in the United States Military?
If ever, how do you store your loaded home defensive weapon in your car and/or home?
Why should the STATE be responsible for making me properly store a weapon?
Don't you think I'm competent to figure it out for myself?
What is your relationship with the NRA?
What do you think the 2nd Amendment means?
What part of "Shall not infringe" don't you understand??????????
Why is it that all of the so-called pro-gun and pro 2A organizations, NRA, JPFO, GOA, all others, cannot stand fast, TOGETHER AND UNITED behind the United States Constitution as it was written and intended? Is that not the common goal? None of these organizations are standing behind the 2nd Amendment as written. Why are they participating, by retreat, weakness, and fear in the destruction of our cherished rights? WHY aren't they WORKING TOGETHER?? Why are we helping them with dues payments? Get active in the defense of your own rights with your own legislators. Remember, when it really gets down to the unthinkable, who's gonna help YOU fight for YOUR rights? LaPierre, Baker, Pratt, Zelman, Gottlieb? To one extent or another these people or their organizations and others have been "helping" you keep your rights since 1968. To that fact, there are more rhetorical questions:
1. Are your rights as strong now as they were in 1960, 1950, 1940, 1930??
2. How did these folks manage to allow RIGHTS to be interpreted as PRIVILEGES?
3. Why do these organizations exist?
4. WHO do they really serve?
5. WHY don't they work together?
Mr, Gottlieb, If you want to sue me like you threatened to sue Pratt, go for it.
Disgusted extremist element of the NRA,
JH Pres., XXXXXXX